Why a cool mountain peak can help us understand how global warming works.

One reader commented on my post about geomagnetic reversal theory of global warming (http://robertkyriakides.wordpress.com/2008/02/27/geomagnetic-reversal-theory-of-global-warming-an-alternative-view/#comments) and although I answered his comment, I felt it best to expand my answer here. The reader, Mr Bob Wexelbaum, rightly referred to elementary physics. I cannot do paraphrase his point and do justice to it, so I set it out in full:-

Remember your high school science classes?  We learned that heat energy can only be transferred by conduction, convection or radiation.  Heat energy can only travel to the Earth from the Sun through space by radiation.  We also learned that heated air rises above cold air, since it is less dense than cold air.  You cannot heat the Earth very efficiently by trapped heated air in the atmosphere or above, as air being trapped by alleged greenhouse effect must be. You cannot heat a house efficiently by heating its attic.   Is the trapped hot air the cause or the effect of Global Warming?  It may well be an insignificant side effect.  I’d rather bet that there is a lot of electro magnetics involved that may prove to be related to cyclic solar radiation variation which may not be solely related to measured photon transfer or radiant spectral power density.
Mr Wexelbaum makes an interesting point, one which goes to the heart of the theory anthropogenic climate change. Of course, school classes simplify the science. And the process of warming the planet is a bit more complicated that it appears.

A good example is of the top of a mountain, which is much colder than its base. This is not because the heat starts from the centre of the earth and heats the earth up (which it does to a very limited extent) but because of convection and solar radiation. Solar radiation penetrates to the earth’s surface, heats it (by molecular vibration) and the heat rises by convection spontaneously. Convection works with liquids and gases and the significant fact here is that so much of the earth is covered with water; water is evaporating all the time and convection transport water vapour into the atmosphere all the time.

If the atmosphere were a closed system – like water in a pot – the top would get hottest. What happens in the atmosphere is that as particles of warm air rise they expand – become less dense. And the expansion requires the expenditure of thermal energy, so the air particles start warm at the bottom of the mountain but are colder by the time they reach the top.

So it is radiation that heats the surface and convection that heats the atmosphere. The solar radiation is fairly constant. Some of it bounces out of the atmosphere but if you increase the greenhouse effect of the atmosphere by injecting more greenhouse gas into it (so the theory goes) less heat escapes and there is more convection in the atmosphere, and so the planet slowly warms up by convection. If you make the seas slightly warmer more water vapour will be created because radiation will be working on seas which require less energy to create more evaporation – starting say half a degree warmer will inevitably create more evaporation with the same amount of radiation.

Evaporation creates more water vapour in the atmosphere, and water vapour is a greenhouse gas too.

Thus the planet will become slowly but surely warmer, until, presumably, the atmosphere reaches its absolute humidity, so the story goes.

If that is right then gradually the planet will warm several degrees. I very much doubt if this process will provide us with a dangerous climate for humans for at least fifty or sixty years, possibly longer. That is the risk and the ultimate reason for changing our behaviour to emit less greenhouse gases is to preserve the planet for humanity.

8 Responses

  1. Mountain peaks are cold because there is lots of water vapor and low air density at the altitudes involved. Evaporation is a cooling process and this causes frost to form on mountain tops…which would have a negative e4ffect on GW, if any.

  2. I can show you 25 plus years worth of weather temprature records that say we are cooling and over the last 10 years the most by over half a degree.

    The geese have gone through 2 weeks ago and are three and a half weeks early this year and the same last year.

    Back in the 70′s even after the hottest summer on record but we had a pretty cold winter too, where the morning after Fawks the spent fireworks would be frozen into the ground and all the leaves were off the trees, lets see what the next two years bring.

    If nature is anything to go by she is now trying to tell us something I think.

    We are now coming up to the end of precession and the planet will soon head back over on the wobble, as will the magnetic north pole which has been steadily been moving towards Moscow at a rate of roughly 24 miles per year.

    Many things are changing and as the sun bursts back into life shortly we will be turning away from its gaze once again if I were to put my money on anything, we are heading back to where we were 40 years ago, its a natural cycle which people are definately trying to make a few bucks from many others ignorance.

    Let it be a valuble lesson learned for those who follow trends and the money which are not part of the natural cycle, because they will be plenty of gravy on the chins of those who follow the wrong pied pipers, and there is still snow on the ground next February.

    We are truly alone amongst the animals, if we continue to ignore nature.

  3. PS: I won the bet!

  4. WMConnely quote:

    (hint: if a septic sez something is true, its probably false…)

    is this man a sientist ? referring to sceptics as septics is childish but I bet he could argue how many fairies can fit on a pinhead.

    Try Nicola Scafetta for a proper and rigorous scientific approach.

  5. I think your analysis does ignore those 2 factors.

    As for trends surely if the trend in the Artic is to be cooler than 2 years ago it is not a trend showing warming.

    I bet you £5 you cannot show me data which shows any trend of increasing tempertaures in the last 3 years..

    • I won’t take your bet but there are places where there has been warming over the past 3 years (there are places where there has been cooling in the past three years). By trend I mean a trend over a hundred years, not three years. Short records, even 30 years, are notoriously unreliable. Also you must calculate mean air temperatures, mean land temperatures and temperatures at different heights and use plenty of data from which to draw your conclusions, rather than sparse data. A good illustration of this is at http://mustelid.blogspot.com/2005/11/arctic-temperature-trends-and-data.html

      Robert

  6. As to greenhouse gases, surely your analysis ignores at least 2 factors:
    1. The atmosphere is surrounded by a vacuum at (approx) -273 C. Therefore the gas particles which remain in the upper atmosphere will be very cold but they are still warmer than ‘black space’ and can radiate/convect heat into this black body until they reach the same temperature, i.e -273C. This will cool the atmosphere.
    2. There will be a potential increase in the shading effect of clouds caused by your predicted increase in atmospheric water vapour.

    ————————————————————————-
    Also Is there really any detectable climate change?

    Apparently, global warming is set to predominantly affect the northern hemisphere. Yet this year the end of the Arctic ice melt has left more ice than the lowest recorded level of 2007. Hardly evidence of global warming is it?

    ——————————————————————————

    FInally Caroline Spelman has today announced that global warming is causing the UK water shortages. This is nonsense!
    The UK does not have a water shortage, even for our bloated population. However, it only naturally accumulates where not many people live and needs to be piped long distances.

    This issue was predicted 30 years ago and pipelines could have been built had we had a ‘public water body’ instead of private companies. They have no interest in the public benefit. Ms Spelman has been ‘got at’ by the water companies to use climate change as an excuse for poor service and rising prices.

    Such government toadying to water companies’ profiteering does no service to the real issues surrounding climate change.

    • I don’t think may analysis ignores those because you have to take into account the solar radiation. Clouds are very important. See http://robertkyriakides.wordpress.com/2009/07/26/the-clouds-theory-of-climate-change/ and http://robertkyriakides.wordpress.com/2008/10/24/looking-at-clouds-from-both-sides-and-up-and-down/ I don’t think there is any doubt that the whole planet is warming, but not every place on the planet is warming at the same rate and small parts are cooling, such is the complexity of it. I also think that it’s not terribly scientific to look at what is happening in one place in one year, but look at trends, and the trends all show warming.

      Robert

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